News: Nihal Grills Prime Minister Gordon Brown As Election Heats Up!

Nihal spoke to the Prime Minister Gordon Brown and grilled the PM on immigration, saving BBC Asian Network, Afghanistan and the rise of the BNP. Read the full interview below...

Nihal: One of your five pledges Prime Minister, highlighted in your election campaign is to talk about fairness for communities, specifically by controlling immigration. Now is it possible for you as the Prime Minister, in this current climate, to talk about controlling immigration and particularly with regards to the fact that you’re on the BBC Asian network, without sounding a tad racist?

PM: I hope we don’t sound that at all because Britain has benefitted from immigration. As a history, our nation is built on our openness to trade and the ideas and the talents of others and that’s also our future. But I think that everybody knows that in every country, migration must be managed and must be tightly controlled, and that’s why our new system, which is called the points based system, has been introduced. First of all, we want to make sure there’s no illegal immigration and where it happens, we deal with it. And secondly, we want to say to people, look if your coming to our country, we want you to have a skill to offer our country and there are certain skills that we need and obviously there are certain skills that we don’t need and we make it clear to people that here are the skills that we do need and if you have these skills to offer, you are very welcome. Now of course for students and for dependents, we have arrangements also but the key of our new system is this points based system and as a result of it, I think we are getting people with skills who are coming to the country but we are not encouraging people without skills.

Nihal: Prime Minister, why is it that the press or certain sections of the press will lead us to believe that there is a flood of immigration and people who live in this country, who were born in this country also believe that they are now fighting for jobs and for homes with people who have recently come into this country? Who’s telling the truth, who is lying?

PM: I think we had a world financial recession that has been very difficult for people and I think it’s true to say that people are worried about their jobs when there is a recession. And I think it’s also true to say that we are trying to give people in Britain the skills that are necessary for the jobs that we are going to have in the future. And I’m in a college today in Derby, where people of all backgrounds are here studying for the qualifications to get the jobs….

Nihal: Prime Minister, sorry to interrupt you but what’s the truth, what’s the truth? Are we being flooded by immigrants or is the fact of the matter something quite different, that we are actually not being flooded with immigrants? Because if you pick up the papers and I pick up the papers everyday and you’re looking at them even at the weekend, one or two of them are saying, there’s a flood of immigration, all these things are happening…Are you in a danger of pandering to these right wing sensibilities and the beliefs of the British national party and the English Defence League if you start becoming more hardcore as it were about immigration?

PM: Well I don’t pander to anybody and I do what is right. Net migration has fallen in this country and that’s the phrase that is used at the measure of the International Migration Series. Net migration as measured by the long-term International Migration Series was 233,000 in the 12 months to December 2007 and then in 2008 it was 163,000. We don’t have the long-term migration figures for the 12 months to the end of 2009 but we expect that they will be less. That is the truth of what is happening that net migration has been falling over the last three years. And it’s better to start a debate by telling people what the truth is. Where there is illegal immigration, we deal with that. We’ve got a new borders agency, we’ve got a bio-metric visas, we’ve got identity cards for foreign nationals coming to the country, a far better system than before but where we have skills that are needing to be met in our economy, we are not taking the view of the Conservative Party that you put a crude cap or quota on all non EU workers coming into the country. We are saying that we should do it by a points system, which I think people see as fair.

Nihal: Prime Minister, why do you think the British National Party are more of a force than they were when the Labour Government came in in 1997? Is that a failure on your part, on David Cameron’s part, on Nick Clegg’s part, the fact that you haven’t managed to satisfy the needs of your core constituency and also, our listeners, British Asians, are worried by the rise of the British National Party, especially my parent’s generation?

PM: Well you know what truly matters about a person, you know I follow Martin Luther King, it’s not the colour of your skins, it’s the content of your character. And I think it’s the job of decent people from every party to expose the BNP for what they really are. They are trying to exploit peoples concerns about immigration and housing, they use them to push their own ideology which is based on race. That ideology of the BNP is totally wrong, and it’s got to be exposed. It’s also not British, because our fathers and our grandfathers fought together in a World War to defeat an ideology based on race.

Nihal: Is everyone who is considering voting for the British National Party then Prime Minister, a racist?

PM: No I didn’t say that and you know I didn’t say that.

Nihal: Well are they, because I just want to know why then they are voting for those people. It’s fine for you to quote Martin Luther King but what about for those people in Barking. Asian people that live in Barking, black people that live in Barking, that are now looking like, the British National Party may do quite well there.

PM: I think you’ll find that the British people are far more sensible about the future and I think they see through an ideology which is based on race, and my point to you is that when people look in-depth at the ideology of the British National Party about the views that they stand for, about the constitution they had until the courts forced them to change it, which was a constitution that was emphasising an ideology based on race, then the British people will see that it’s better to vote for other parties and better to vote particularly for parties that are going to offer the jobs and the housing and the answers to the questions that people have and the concerns that they have.

Nihal: Okay thank you for that Prime Minister.
A question now from a listener, Mr Khan, who asks the question, we have been in Afghanistan for over eight years, and more and more civilians and British soldiers have died. Can you tell us what will you be doing to make sure that there is a withdrawal from Afghanistan in your next term as Prime Minister?

PM: Well you know I’ve spelt out to people how we are training the Afghan Police and the Afghan Army so that they can take over the security of their country. We want to have a corrupt free central Government, we want to build up local government with the people in Afghanistan and with the local tribal leaders, and as we build up the number of Forces in Afghanistan that are local, and domestic and homegrown Forces, the Police and the Armed Forces to 300,000 over the next year, so there’s a huge rise taking place in the number of Police that are trained and the number of soldiers that are trained and of course big changes in District Governors and Provincial Governors bringing in the people themselves in the local communities of Afghanistan and as that happens, as the Afghans are able and in a position to withstand the Taliban and Al-Qaeda by their own effort, by their own Army and Police Force, then it will be possible for us to reduce our troops in Afghanistan.

Nihal: Okay. Do you have a timetable do you think for which point they will be able to fulfil these obligations?

PM: This is more task led then time led, because once we can train up the Afghans, and they’re working very closely with us. This is not like many other problems of the past. The local people in Afghanistan do not want the Taliban, they have voted for alternatives to the Taliban. All the polls suggest that they’ve got very very limited support for the Taliban, and of course people do not want Al-Qaeda, but of course the Afghan Security Forces and the Afghan Police have not been strong enough in past years to resist the Taliban or Al-Qaeda, and that’s why we’ve got to build up the Forces and help the Afghan people be in a position to run their own security affairs in the future.

Nihal: Okay, alright, I need to move on. Do you believe that Foreign Policy, and this is something that a lot of our listeners believe, especially regarding Iraq and Afghanistan has made Britain a more divided place?

PM: I think Iraq was a divisive issue in Britain, we are no longer in Iraq of course, and Basra the place we were in is now moving forward with economic development and local government of its own and its own Police Force. But I think when people look at our record overall and they look what at we’ve done on international development, Britain is leading the world, leading the world in ensuring that from many countries that are poor countries, educational opportunity is now available to young children where it was not available before, so 40 million children who weren’t at school when we came into government even in 2000, are now going to school. 75 million children still have to get the chance to go to school and that’s why we are putting an international aid into a whole range of countries from Asia to Africa to make sure that people get education. And I think our record also in trying to help deal with the healthcare problems of many many people, aids, tuberculosis, malaria, all these dread diseases, you know 1 in 8 mothers in Sierra Leone die in childbirth and we are trying to help that country and other countries….

Nihal: I understand that, but I wasn’t talking about Sierra Leone. I was talking about Iraq and Afghanistan and how that affects British Muslims, and not just British Muslims but a lot of people and how they feel their British Government has betrayed in many ways.

PM: I’ve worked with Muslim Aid and all the different Aid Organisations, the record of charitable giving and the help from the Muslim community and the Sikh community to helping those in other countries where there is poverty, where there’s deprivation, where there’s disease, and where there’s illiteracy, is something that everybody in Britain should be proud of. We are determined to be the country in the world that is a beacon for those who know that we will keep our promises on International Aid. We have doubled the percentage of national income spent on international aid over the last 13 years and we do so because we want to see a global society where every person from every background from every religion can work together.

Nihal: No absolutely. I understand that. I’ve got two more questions 'cos I understand time is of the essence for you Prime Minister.
The first one is from Mr Aloo. What is Gordon Brown going to do about greedy corporate executives and bankers who have got us into the economic mess we have find ourselves in? Why our ordinary punters like us having to pick up the tabs? Can anything be done on a global level so that bankers do not hold countries to ransom?

PM: Yes. The one thing is we have protected everybody’s savings and deposits. Every bank has been loaned money. All the money will be coming back to the Government, that is our insistence, but we do need global supervision, it’s not enough to do it in one country where banks are entangled with each other in all countries, so we are proposing a global financial levy on banks, that will return to the public some of the money that has been lost but also in future, show that the banks will make a proper contribution to our society. We are taking the action that is necessary at a global level working with other countries. People can be sure of my commitment to that action.

Nihal: Okay just one last question. People are trying to pull you away but this is important. Certainly for a lot of our listeners. They have asked the question that they commented on the proposed closure of the BBC Asian Network as a national station by the BBC and Ajay said ‘I think the BBC network should be saved ‘cos this is the only commercial free platform for British Asians’.
Now I saw that you put yourself behind the campaign to save 6 Music, do you think the BBC should also save the Asian Network as a national station?

PM: Well obviously these are decisions for the BBC themselves, the BBC is independent but…

Nihal: Well you commented on 6 music…

PM: Yes this is what I’m going to add to you. I believe that the BBC has got a responsibility to all communities and I believe that we will work closely with the Asian community in making sure that there is the full range of broadcasting. So I can assure you that I am interested in the BBC giving the widest possible range of services.

Nihal "There you go, he’s interested in giving the BBC the widest possible range of services. That was my good self talking to Prime Minister Gordon Brown."